  27/08/2011 17:08 |
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Esistono 4 colorazioni legate al sesso, una per la verità è una "sottocategoria", ovvero una mutazione di una.
ARGENTO
ORO
BARRATO
CIOCCOLATA
con colorazione legata al sesso pensavo di parlare di esemplari il cui colore si manifestava diversamente a seconda che si trattasse del maschio o della femmina.
Così lo è per la argento, la oro, la barrata ma non lo è per la cioccolata..in cui maschio e femmina avrebbero identico mantello?
(da notare che con argento sono incluse tutte quelle che hanno questa base, quindi perniciata argento ecc, così per il barrato, è incluso barrato grigioperla, barrato fulvo ecc)
Allora essendo maschio e femmina nella cioccolata uguali qual'è la definizione più appropriata di colorazione legata al sesso?
Tralasciando il discorso che le femmine hanno una sola copia del gene e nn sono mai eterozigoti, mentre i maschi avendo 2 copie possono essere eterozigoti.
Quale altra definizione di categoria può essere adottata?
può essere adottata quella che in caso di incrocio i figli maschi seguono la colorazione della madre e viceversa le figlie femmine quella del padre?
Neanche perchè
es nella perniciata oro
maschio perniciata oro x femmina perniciata argento = maschi intermedi e femmine perniciate oro
invece nella sparviero o barrata
gallo sparviero x femmina nera= maschi sparviero scuri (non neri) e femmine sparviero
quindi pure questa definizione nn è corretta |
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| 27/08/2011 22:59 |
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Rachele you are not completely correct ... a little confusion !
* (the mutant alleles are the consequence of mutations of the original allele).
there are 3 sex-linked genes (their locus is situated on the sex-gene)
- S-locus : original gene is "s+" (=gold), mutation is "S" (=Silver) phenotype depending on the ground-color
- B-locus : original gene is "b+" (=not barred), mutation is "B" (=Barred) phenotype depending on the ground-color
- choc-locus : original gene is Choc+ (= not chocolate), mutation is "choc" (=chocolate) phenotype depending on the ground-color
I let you see 3 examples ( E/E - ER/ER - eWh/eWh - eb/eb - e+/e+) of the 5 possibillities (of the E-locus) that determine the "pattern" for the "cioccolata" :
(1 unicolor, 1 based on Silver, 1 based on gold)
ground-color here is "E/E" = Nera in cui maschio e femmina avrebbero identico mantello
ground-color here is "eb/eb" = perniciata in cui maschio e femmina NON avrebbero identico mantello (basato con Argento)
ground-color here is "e+/e+" = selvatica in cui maschio e femmina NON avrebbero identico mantello (basato con oro)
As you can see it is the genes of the E-locus that determine the phenotype "drawing" differences. The genes of the S-locus determine the plumage "color" is Argento or oro.
To avoid more confusions in the interpretations of the genetic-codes by giving only individual bits of information and because of some readers not having the knowledge of the basic working of the different inhiritance ways, I propose we wait for the result of the sondaggio to can product a complete practical explaining guide, starting from the very beginning, in your own language, Italiano, this under the leading of our administrator with the assistance of friends, so that all interested can enjoy the why of chicken-colorations in an easy way from the theory towards the practice and visa versa.
Rachele1, 27-8-2011 17:08:
Esistono 4 colorazioni legate al sesso, una per la verità è una "sottocategoria", ovvero una mutazione di una.
ARGENTO
ORO
BARRATO
CIOCCOLATA
con colorazione legata al sesso pensavo di parlare di esemplari il cui colore si manifestava diversamente a seconda che si trattasse del maschio o della femmina.
Così lo è per la argento, la oro, la barrata ma non lo è per la cioccolata..in cui maschio e femmina avrebbero identico mantello?
(da notare che con argento sono incluse tutte quelle che hanno questa base, quindi perniciata argento ecc, così per il barrato, è incluso barrato grigioperla, barrato fulvo ecc)
Allora essendo maschio e femmina nella cioccolata uguali qual'è la definizione più appropriata di colorazione legata al sesso?
Tralasciando il discorso che le femmine hanno una sola copia del gene e nn sono mai eterozigoti, mentre i maschi avendo 2 copie possono essere eterozigoti.
Quale altra definizione di categoria può essere adottata?
può essere adottata quella che in caso di incrocio i figli maschi seguono la colorazione della madre e viceversa le figlie femmine quella del padre?
Neanche perchè
es nella perniciata oro
maschio perniciata oro x femmina perniciata argento = maschi intermedi e femmine perniciate oro
invece nella sparviero o barrata
gallo sparviero x femmina nera= maschi sparviero scuri (non neri) e femmine sparviero
quindi pure questa definizione nn è corretta
[Modificato da Danny_57 28/08/2011 09:29] |
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| 28/08/2011 09:39 |
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si danny, penso di aver scritto la stessa cosa, cioè che che 4 colorazioni (per la verità una è mutazione) solo legate al sesso
gold
silver
barred
and chocolate
are colours sex linked (one is a mutation)
I think to wrote the same think
about definition
I said I tought that male and female had different colour (gold, silver has different colour male and female, barred has a different intensity, male and female..but it's not so for chocolate where male and female have the same feathers)..so I don't find a definition
genetically a person can think a male progeny follow the mother color, and a female progeny follow the father colour but in some case is not so.
so I'm not able to finding a definition word for sex linked colours [Modificato da Rachele1 28/08/2011 09:44] |
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| 28/08/2011 09:49 |
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it are not the sex-linked color-genes that determine the differences of the phenotypes it are the E-locus genes.
The sex-linked color-genes are genes as the other color-genes with the only difference they are located on the sex-chromosome of which a female have only 1 allel, the other is a "-"
If you want a difinition for a sex-linked gene : of a sex-linked gene, the cock have 2 alleles, the hen have 1 allele and a "-" (this not intend alone the sex-linked COLOR-gene !!!)
Rachele1, 28-8-2011 9:39:
si danny, penso di aver scritto la stessa cosa, cioè che che 4 colorazioni (per la verità una è mutazione) solo legate al sesso
gold
silver
barred
and chocolate
are colours sex linked (one is a mutation)
I think to wrote the same think
about definition
I said I tought that male and female had different colour (gold, silver has different colour male and female, barred has a different intensity, male and female..but it's not so for chocolate where male and female have the same feathers)..so I don't find a definition
genetically a person can think a male progeny follow the mother color, and a female progeny follow the father colour but in some case is not so.
so I'm not able to finding a definition word for sex linked colours
[Modificato da Danny_57 28/08/2011 10:02] |
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| 28/08/2011 09:55 |
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to be complete :
Sex-linkend colours heridity:
Most organisms, including chickens, have many autosome pairs per cell but only 1 pair of sex chromosomes.
The rooster gives half of his genetic information to a spermcell, the hen also but because she lacks a second Z chromosome, she partly donates an incomplete set which is written as "-", to an egg.
So the rooster always donates a Z and the female donates a Z or the odd partner w ("-").
That means that all offspring of the rooster always receives a Z from him.
Since hens only have one Z it always comes from their father. From their mother they get the dwarf chromosome w.
So all sex-linked traits like silver/gold and cuckoo or barred and chocolate from a hen she becamed from her father.
A hen can never give sexlinked traits to her daughters!
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| 28/08/2011 10:12 |
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so only hen becomes from the father feathers
not always the opposite..eg coqs from the mother because
maschio perniciata oro x femmina perniciata argento = maschi intermedi e femmine perniciate oro
barred or cuckoo
gallo sparviero x femmina nera= maschi sparviero scuri (non neri) e femmine sparviero
here coqs progeny is not black so don't follow mother feathers
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| 28/08/2011 10:17 |
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The genetic-rule about the sex-linked genes is formal (it acts ALWAYS in the same way)
Your "main thinking point" in this matter is not correct !
[Modificato da Danny_57 28/08/2011 10:20] |
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| 28/08/2011 10:31 |
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why crossing barred coq with black hen..al males hatch barred dark (eterozigote) and doesn't follow mother colour? |
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| 28/08/2011 10:33 |
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I mean only hens follow the parents colour? |
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| 28/08/2011 10:37 |
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Rachele1, 28-8-2011 10:31:
why crossing barred coq with black hen..al males hatch barred dark (eterozigote) and doesn't follow mother colour?
![[SM=g7349]](https://im0.freeforumzone.it/up/0/49/2645640.gif)
barred (dark) cock E/E B/b+ X black hen E/E b+/- =
25% barred hens E/E B/-
25% barred (dark) cocks E/E B/b+
25% black hens E/E b+/-
25% black cocks E/E b+/b+[Modificato da Danny_57 28/08/2011 10:43] |
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| 28/08/2011 11:24 |
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not barred (dark) but barred pure coq crossed with black hen.
I speak of first generation |
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| 28/08/2011 11:48 |
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Rachele1, 28-8-2011 11:24:
not barred (dark) but barred pure coq crossed with black hen.
I speak of first generation
Because in this case ALL chicks (males and females) become a "B" from the father :
Barred (light) cock E/E B/B X Black hen E/E b+/- =
50% barred females E/E B/-
50% barred (dark) males E/E B/b+
The mother have NO input for the sex-linked "B"-gene
[Modificato da Danny_57 28/08/2011 12:15] |
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| 28/08/2011 12:06 |
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now is ok mother has no imput.
that's for that I said
only young hen becomes from the father feathers
not always the opposite..eg coqs from the mother because ..etc I made 2 examples..one took mother feather, another sex linked coloration not.
So about sex linked colours we can say DAUGHTER BRINGS FATHER FEATHERS.
stop
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| 28/08/2011 12:09 |
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Look this same sex-linked crossing but with the "recessive" choc-gene :
chocolate cock E/E choc/choc X Black hen E/E Choc+/- =
50% chocolate females E/E choc/-
50% black males E/E choc/Choc+
The mother had NO inpute for the sex-linked "choc"-gene [Modificato da Danny_57 28/08/2011 12:15] |
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| 28/08/2011 12:13 |
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The only difference in these 2 similar sex-linked crosses with different outcomes is :
the "B"-gene is a Dominant gene.
the "choc"-gene is a recessive gene. |
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| 28/08/2011 12:18 |
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Rachele1, 28-8-2011 12:06:
So about sex linked colours we can say DAUGHTER BRINGS FATHER FEATHERS.
A hen can never give sexlinked traits to her daughters! |
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| 28/08/2011 12:22 |
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Rachele1, 28-8-2011 12:06:
stop
ok
I already wrote in the beginning of the discussion :
"To avoid more confusions in the interpretations of the genetic-codes by giving only individual bits of information and because of some readers not having the knowledge of the basic working of the different inhiritance ways, I propose we wait for the result of the sondaggio to can product a complete practical explaining guide, starting from the very beginning, in your own language, Italiano, this under the leading of our administrator with the assistance of friends, so that all interested can enjoy the why of chicken-colorations in an easy way from the theory towards the practice and visa versa".
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| 28/08/2011 12:22 |
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ok to daughters, I'm referring always to opposite
father to daughter
mother to boys
so hen to youg boys give sex linked?If yes control if in all sex linked colour
in some yes, in some no |
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| 28/08/2011 12:24 |
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no I said stop about definition..I means there were only those definition?Stop?
No quando ho detto stop mi riferivo alla definizione no alla discussione, cioè c'è solo quella definizione dal momento che alla femmina nn si può applicare? |
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