A comb on a Silkies !

Silkies should have a "walnut-comb", a "crest", a "beard", "ear-tufts" !

-Crest (Cr) autosomal incomplete dominant;
-Muff beard (Mb) autosomal incomplete dominant;
-Ear tufts (Et) autosomal, semi-lethal, incomplete dominant;
-Walnut comb ...............

What is intended with a "walnut-comb" ?
It's the combination between a "rose-comb" and a "pea-comb", right ?

A pure (homozygous) "rose-comb" is RR(pp), a unpure (heterozygous) "rose-comb" is Rr(pp), incomplete dominant.
A pure (homozygous) "pea-comb" is (rr)PP, a unpure (heterozygous) "pea-comb" is (rr)Pp, incomplete dominant.
So a pure (homozygous) "walnut-comb" is RRPP, a unpure (heterozygous) "walnut-comb" is .... more complicated it is RrPp but also RRPp and RrPP al the same .... on first side only !!

What about the "wattles" (non-bearded) or the absence of the "wattles" (bearded) or them being "intermediar" ?

A "pea-comb" greatly reduces the size of the wattles (also when heterozygous because incomplete dominant) this should mean non-bearded Silkies should have a "rose-comb" !!
Which affect this have on bearded Silkies that must have the "walnut-comb" RRPP or RrPp or RRPp or RrPP and this in combination with Cr, Mb and Et with or without comb-modifiers "He+" (rough) opponent of "he" (smooth) which modify comb texture, especially noticeable in "rose-combs" ??

Say again "walnut-comb"

Strawberry-comb is a pea-comb with modifier He+ (Rough)
Cushion-comb is a peo-comb with modifier he (Smooth)

Walnut-comb is the combination of pea- and rose-comb, can with modifier He+ (Rough) or he (Smooth)

No comb without wattles !! (as we see on the "single-combed" Livornos).

We have bearded Silkies an non bearded Silkies. Bearded Silkies should not have wattles ! Non bearded Silkies must have wattles !
R/R or R/r+ is a "rose-comb" which combine with big wattles.
P/P or P/p+ is a "pea-comb" which combine with reduced wattles.

So, we all presume Silkies have a "walnut-comb" which is genetically the combination of a "pea-comb" and a "rose-comb" : (P/P, R/R) or (P/p+, R/r+) or (P/P, R/r+) or (P/p+, R/R) which show phenotypically the same because both are incomplete dominant.
Is this the same for the bearded and non bearded Silkie ?

There are directly comb modifier genes and there are indirectly comb modifier genes :
-He+/He+ give rough combs (with possibility for triplet);
-he/he give smooth combs (reduces possibility for triplet);

-Mb/Mb or Mb/mb+ mufbeard, causes reduced wattles;
-Cr/Cr or Cr/cr+ crest, causes wrinkled comb.

With this information which combination of comb type genes and comb modifier genes is the best for each Silkie ?
Bearded Silkies should have best this genetic-code : (R/r+ P/p+) or (R/r+ P/P) he/he Cr/Cr Mb/Mb. This is a modified smooth, wrinkled "walnut-comb" with NO (or very reduced) wattles on a crested head with beard !
Non bearded Silkies should have best this genetic-code : (R/R p+/p+) or (R/r+ p+/p+) he/he Cr/Cr mb+/mb+. This is a smooth, wrinkled modified "rose-comb" with BIG wattles on a crested head without beard !

qualcuno potrebbe tradurre grazie
ciao emanuele

2 "different" combs ? or 2 the same combs ? Which genes are involved ?

Which gene is different ?

Silkies with "trifid" caused by what ?

Il est plus facile Danny, si au lieu de poser des questions auxquelles personne saura vraiment répondre, tu nous fasses une leçon..
J'ai demandé dejà a quelqu'un de traduire les messages précedents pour que tous puissent comprendre..moi j'ai un peu traduit mais il y a quelque chose que je n'ai trés bien compris.
Si je dois raisonner sur des formules génétique que je ne connais pas et au meme temps sur l'anglais que je n'ai pas étudié..ça devient difficile :)

Danny_57, 01/04/2012 11.30:

---

Silkies with "trifid" caused by what ?

---

A gauche.. une belle crète de Watermael..en noir

Io lo sò ma dico solo stronzate....

pushok-mc, 1-4-2012 12:04:

---

Il est plus facile Danny, si au lieu de poser des questions auxquelles personne saura vraiment répondre, tu nous fasses une leçon..
J'ai demandé dejà a quelqu'un de traduire les messages précedents pour que tous puissent comprendre..moi j'ai un peu traduit mais il y a quelque chose que je n'ai trés bien compris.
Si je dois raisonner sur des formules génétique que je ne connais pas et au meme temps sur l'anglais que je n'ai pas étudié..ça devient difficile :)

---

Je n'ai pas a donner des leçons a personne, parce que après chaque réponse je retrouve deux nouveaux questions.
Un code génétique est seulement une abréviation d'un mot (généralement de l'anglais) mais "He+" par exemple vient de Hérissée, qui est français.

Inheritance : thousands of genes are assorting and interacting.
Most phenotypic traits are produced by the interaction of more than one gene.
Monogenic trait - a single phenotypic trait whose expression is controlled by the action of a single gene locus.
Polygenic trait - a single phenotypic trait whose expression is controlled/affected by the action of more than one gene locus.
Some genes have more than two alleles, and not all the alleles have equal dominance/recessiveness.
Example the "E-locus" : E > ER > eWh > eb > e+ , or the "S-locus" : S > s+ > s^al .
Different combinations of the various alleles can produce a range of phenotypes.
When a single gene affects the expression of more than one phenotypic character, the phenomenon is known as pleiotropy.
An epistatic gene locus is one that affects the expression of alleles at another, separate gene locus.
The gene locus whose expression is affected by the epistatic locus is said to be hypostatic.

Multiple genes, each with more than one allele, can interact to produce unexpected phenotypes due to epistatic interactions.
Inheritance of comb shape, two loci, each with two alleles:
Rose gene: R or r
Pea gene: P or p
Rose gene, if present in R/R or R/r+ will produce a "rose type" comb but ONLY if Pea gene is present in p+/p+ condition.
Pea gene, if present in P/P or P/p+ will produce a "pea type" comb but ONLY if Rose gene is present in r+/r+ condition.
If one dominant allele is present for BOTH pea and rose, a "walnut type" comb is the result. R_P_ will give a "walnut" comb.
If both alleles are present in double recessive condition, r+/r+, p+/p+ along with d+/d+, Bd+/Bd+ (the wild type) single comb results.

What happens when this gene combination (E/E B/B id+/id+ Fm/Fm P/P R/R he/he Mb/Mb Cr/Cr) comes together in a male Silkie ?

I fenotipi generati dal pisello non sono fissabili .
Alcuni fenotipi della spina della rosa si .

This happen :

When this gene combination (E/E B/B id+/id+ Fm/Fm P/p+ R/R He+/He+ mb+/mb+ Cr/Cr) comes together in a male Silkie .... than this happen :

This last phenotype does not correspondent with the given genotype !
I had hoped someone should have made the remark.
So I put it in a direct question, what is the incorrectness ?

Danny_57, 4-4-2012 12:25:

---

This last phenotype does not correspondent with the given genotype !
I had hoped someone should have made the remark.
So I put it in a direct question, what is the incorrectness ?

---

I suppose nobody is interested in (Silkie)combs so I will confine myself to this last remark which point to the incorrectness in the maded statement :
"When this gene combination (E/E B/B id+/id+ Fm/Fm P/p+ R/R He+/He+ mb+/mb+ Cr/Cr) comes together in a male Silkie .... than this happen" :

pushok-mc, 1-4-2012 12:05:

---

A gauche.. une belle crète de Watermael..en noir

---

From the standard for the Belgian Watermaal Bantams - a cousin of d'Anvers/d'Uccles!

COMB: Rose - broad, rather short, nearly square in front, sitting firmly and evenly on head, top level, covered with fine points, free from hollows, with three spikes that are round at the base to their tips, each tapering to a fine point, the middle spike being longer than the two outer spikes that press down on the tassel.
TASSEL: A tuft or crest of feathers rising from the rear of head at rear of comb, falling gracefully over back neck.
WATTLES: Rudimentary only.
BEARD & MUFFS: Abundant, very fully developed, the whole forming a collar of three barely separated ovals, giving muffed effect.

Trifid Rose-comb as on the tassled Barbu de Watermael R/R He+/He+ Cr/Cr is a "modified" comb


This is identical to the described Silkie comb in the past century, Silkies had a three thorn comb in origin.