Danny_57, 24/08/2012 18.37: The Cemani we know here in Europe are not the real Cemani from Java but are crosses with Black Australorp. The Luikse vechter should origine in crosses between Brugse vechter and Maleier. Cemani have most probably e-allel E/E (Nero Esteso) with Fm/Fm and id+/id+ * id+/- along with other unknown melanisers. The white Luikse vechter have most probably e-allel ER/ER (Betulla) with also Fm/Fm and id+/id+ * id+/- and recessive white c/c. So yes in 2 generations you can become recessive white Cemani (it's only a question of following the genetic inheritance rules) buth these will have more a black/blue skin & shanks (as also the recessive white Moroseta have) just because of c/c dilutes in some way the black-pigment of dermal and epidermal layers. Hopefully my post can also be translated by the staff so that every member here can follow what I wrote. Thanks.