Grigioperla x splash

Qualcuno che ha già fatto questo accoppiamento o che lo sa quale colorazione viene fuori in prima generazione accoppiando grigioperla con splash. E quale colorazione accoppiando grigioperla con blu.

Alle chicks will be Blue (carrier of 1 "lav-allel") when cross Grigioperla X Splash .
Why ?
Grigioperla (when pure) should be E/E lav/lav.
Splash (when pure) should be E/E Bl/Bl.

So all chicks will be E/E Bl/bl+ Lav+/lav = Blue phenotype.

When cross Grigioperla X Blue : 50% of the chicks will be Black and 50% will be Blue (all carrier of 1 "lav-allel").
Why ?
Grigioperla (when pure) should be E/E lav/lav.
Blue (when pure) should be E/E Bl/bl+.

So 50% of the chicks will be E/E bl+/bl+ Lav+/lav = Black phenotype
and 50% of the chicks will be E/E BL/bl+ Lav+/lav = Blue phenotype

Che bello poter avere queste spiegazioni, grazie.
Quando riottengo il grigioperla puro, in seconda generazione?
At second generation you will obtain lavender pure again?

Yes in second generation you can become again Grigioperla. The percentage depends which animals you use as parents !
Example when you cross Blue brother X Blue sister which are :
E/E Bl/bl+ Lav+/lav X E/E Bl/bl+ Lav+/lav you become 4 colorations :
Black phenotypes +- 20%
Blue phenotypes +- 35%
Splash phenotypes +- 25%
Grigioperla phenotypes +-20%

When you want the highest percentage of Grigioperla you cross for example Grigioperla father X Blue daughter which are :
(you become the same percentages when the cross is Grigioperla mother X Blue son, because NO sex-linked genes involved)
E/E lav/lav X E/E Bl/bl+ Lav+/lav you become 3 colorations :
Black phenotypes +- 25%
Blue phenotypes +- 25%
Grigioperla phenotypes +- 50%

Io ho una coppia di olandesine, gallo grigioperla e gallina splash, e ho ottenuto sempre e solo pulcini blu. Riaccoppiandoli fra loro, come ti suggerisce Danny, riotterrai i grigioperla.Clodiloa

Grazie ancora, e i grigioperla che nasceranno porteranno il blu?
Cioè accoppiando solo i grigioperla della seconda generazione ottengo solo grigioperla o durante gli anni anche qualche blu.

50% of the grigioperla are carrier of one Blue-allel the other 50% are not carrier of a Blue-allel.
BUT it is NOT to see on the outside which carry and which NOT carry that Blue-allel.
When after you breed grigioperla X grigioperla (that carry the Blue-allel) will come out 100% grigioperla in phenotype.
This because grigioperla is a recessive coloration, this means that recessieve color can ONLY be seen when BOTH allels are present in one animal.
In other words when you have E/E Bl/Bl lav/lav you will see only grigioperla because, the word is "epistasis" (as I explained in my webpages), the lav/lav put itself over all other possible "alleles" present in that chicken.
(exception not over the double recessive white alleles c/c)

Accade così anche con il bianco?
Quando presi in germania le grigioperla e le blu, mi nasceva anche qualcuno bianco.
Un grigioperla portatore di bianco può dare qualche bianco?Avevo già chiesto in un forum francese, loro sostenevano che esisteva il grigioperla portatore di bianco, qui si diceva di no.
Cioè i grigioperla ottenuti da incroci con il bianco potevano non dare 100% di gp

Ciao Rachele, solo da due genitori portatori di bianco possono nascere di soggetti bianchi (25%). Un grigio perla puro non porta bianco ma se non puro, può avere l'allele c.... Però pure l'altro soggetto dev'essere portatore di questo allele, altrimenti di bianchi non nascono.

Look Rachele, is not soo difficult the genetics (when you breed within the same groundcolor family and when that groundcolor is pure , means 2 exact alleles as E/E or eb/eb or eWh/eWh) !

when you breed whit 2 grigioperla that have a genoom :
E/E lav/lav C+/c X E/E lav/lav C+/c
(as you can see they are both "pure" grigioperla in phenotype but are also both carrier of ONE c-allel)
The result is, as Tünde say, +-25% white and 75% grigioperla.
Why?
Because when come together the c-allel of the father and the c-allel of the mother these become "epistasis" over the E/E and over the lav/lav, so a recessive white phenotype E/E lav/lav c/c .
The rest will be +-25% grigioperla phenotypes E/E lav/lav C+/C+ (not carrier of c-allel).
and +-50% grigioperla phenotypes E/E lav/lav C+/c (carrier of 1 c-allel).

ALL THIS IS GOOD IN THEORY WHEN ALL BREEDING PARENTS ARE "PURE" !
BUT LOOK THIS (when the ground color become NOT more pure as E/eb) :
You breed a "pure" grigiopela E/E lav/lav X a "pure" white eb/eb c/c and you result in "UNPURE" groundcolor for the chicks E/eb Lav+/lav C+/c these are "unpure Black" phenotypes carrier of 1 lav-allel and carrier of 1 c-allel. BUT the black will not be "pure" black (they will show more or less gold (or Silver) in there necks, shoulders, wings ...) Remember your crosses you did 2 years ago Rachele.

When you now cross these brother X sister E/eb Lav+/lav C+/c you will become 128 different genotypes and in 5 different colored phenotypes (which all can look a little different because of there little different genooms) :
-lavender patterned isabel partridge;
-black patterned gold partridge;
-black;
-grigioperla;
-white.
You understand from now on it will become impossible to predict what the future outcomes will be !!!!!

Ahhhh ecco, ti ricordi quella volta che si diceva qui che il grigioperla non poteva portare il bianco?
Io pensavo che anche se avevano l'allele del bianco (entrambi) non potessero comunque produrre pulcini bianchi, perchè si diceva del bianco recessivo ecc.

Invece nel forum francese mi dicevano che esisteva il grigioperla portatore di bianco e che da una coppia gp potevano nascere.
Grazie!

Si is possible that a grigioperla is carrier of a white-allel.
when you breed whit 2 grigioperla that have a genoom :
E/E lav/lav C+/c X E/E lav/lav C+/c
(as you can see they are both "pure" grigioperla in phenotype but are also both carrier of ONE c-allel)
The result is, as Tünde say, +-25% white and 75% grigioperla.

BUT when : E/E lav/lav c/c phenotype is white.
Also when : eb/eb lav/lav c/c phenotype is white.

This because (in principe) recessive white "c/c" is EPISTASIS over ALL colorations !

BUT from a couple recessive white both carrier of a lav-allel NEVER will be born grigioperla !!
Why?
E/E (or eb/eb) c/c Lav+/lav X E/E (or eb/eb) c/c Lav+/lav will result in ALL white chicks.
- 25% E/E (or eb/eb) c/c Lav+/Lav+ = phenotype white;
- 50% E/E (or eb/eb) c/c Lav+lav = phenotype white carrier of 1 lav-allel;
- 25% E/E (or eb/eb) c/c lav/lav = phenotype white even there are 2 alleles lavender but c/c is EPISTASIS over it (as I already said over ALL colorations).

Si si ok, dai bianchi non ritornano i grigioperla.
Interessante che quando il bianco passa dai grigioperla o dai blu la pigmentazione di becco e cresta diventa giallognola.
Provate a fare passare degli ottimi bianchi a faccia scura dall'accoppiamento grigioperla o blu e vi ritornano con becco e cresta giallognolo-rosato, nonostante il grigioperla e il blu mantengano bene la pigmentazione richiesta

This is not always so, not in all stocks !
Ask Tünde about Black- and Blue-Silver cocks she had of mine, was one with a very dark crest. (he was not so good in shape) but such ones you should breed in only to select on for the coloration of the crest.

Another thing is the "groundcolor", these of Black, Blue, Splash, Grigioperla should be "E/E", these of white should be "eb/eb" and that makes a difference.
Read about here : sites.google.com/site/zijdehoenders/t%26dcreating/basics-about-chicken-color-genetics-heritage/breeding-specialitity-knowledge-about-e-e-groundcolor...
and here : sites.google.com/site/zijdehoenders/t%26dcreating/basics-about-chicken-color-genetics-heritage/breeding-specialitity-knowledge-about-eb-eb-groundcolor...